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Robert Rae
Last seen: 1 month 1 day ago
Joined: 08/20/2019 - 16:32
"Instructor Final Note" field disappeared

Folks,

The "Instructor Final Note" field associated with the Student on the Academics > Classes > Grades page seems to have disappeared for us. That is, if I go to Academics > Classes > choose a class > Grading > "Enter/Update Final Grades", where there used to be a field called "Instructor Final Note", that no longer seems to be there to enter data. The field header is still there on the Class page, so I assume it still exists, just the entry field is gone!

This is quite important, since Cliff in particular use that field to hold additional information that appears on the Exam Board grids, and needs to be entered on the Admin side (rather than the Instructor side).

Thanks for your help!

 

 

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PGuevara
Last seen: 3 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2021 - 01:03
field disappeared

Hello Robert,

I have directed this issue to the developers.

Thanks for reporting,

Priscila

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GNECsis Spanish and Portuguese Support Specialist

ksautter
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 10/21/2022 - 22:47
Hi Robert,

Hi Robert,

From what I see, on the "Enter/Update Final Grade" page, the column "Instructor Note" is the same field as "Instructor Final Note" on the "Class Detail" page. This is also the same field as the "Note's to Registrar's Office" on the faculty portal "Update Final Grades" page. I verified that this field is also the same field that is used on the Cliff Exam Board report under the "Comments" column for a student.

This has not changed recently so please let us know if something needs to be changed.

Kelly

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Robert Rae
Last seen: 1 month 1 day ago
Joined: 08/20/2019 - 16:32
Interesting, I must just be

Interesting, I must just be mis-remembering then.

In that case, we DO have an actual error to report instead! When I try to enter a value in this field for one of the classes, I get the following error. I seem to recall this was something to do with having a student on a different grade scale (also highlighted)? Is there a way around this?

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Robert Rae
Admissions
Nazarene Theological College, Manchester (UK)

ksautter
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 10/21/2022 - 22:47
When I look at the Grade

When I look at the Grade Scale for NTC PHD the only valid values are "S" and "U" (Academics->Administration->Grade Scale) so you would have to enter one of them.

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Robert Rae
Last seen: 1 month 1 day ago
Joined: 08/20/2019 - 16:32
Hmm, that's a tricky one. So,

Hmm, that's a tricky one. So, the student is currently working at PhD level, but the course they took was at MA level. So, I don't want to add all the MA-level grades to the PhD-level grading scale (since they don't apply). And, indeed, I don't need to change the grade in this field since it's already in, I just need to add information into a different field (instructor note), but it won't allow re-saving now that the student has moved from Level 7 to Level 8.

So essentially, the grade scale is linked to the student, rather than the Class/Course? 

 

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Robert Rae
Admissions
Nazarene Theological College, Manchester (UK)

ksautter
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 10/21/2022 - 22:47
The grade scale is tied

The grade scale is tied through the "College". A class is related to a course which is related to a College and it's grade scale. However, the student's major degree track (which is related to a College/Grade Scale) takes precedence. I would have thought that you would want to give this student a "PhD" level grade even though the class is an MA class. No? Ah, but you are saying that the student took this class while level 7 MA, then was moved and now you want to change the comment? So this class is based on their prior grade scale? Hmmm... would need to think about that. Can you tell me which student this is?

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Robert Rae
Last seen: 1 month 1 day ago
Joined: 08/20/2019 - 16:32
Ah, I see, that makes sense -

Ah, I see, that makes sense - I think for our purposes, the precedence should be the other way around - the Class college overrules the Student Major Degree Track college, since if a student takes a Class out of level, they will still be graded according to the grade scale of the Class. So in this case, even if the student was a PhD student while they took the Class, it would still need an MA-level grade.

This is Cliff College student 380000718 in class P7PTC2-30, 2021-2022, 2nd Sem. I believe there may be a couple of other instances, but I'd have to check with Allison. It isn't a common issue (as we have the same grade scale at Undergraduate and MA, it is only PhD level that is different), as it only occurs when a PhD level student takes an MA level course for credit, or when an MA student has progressed to PhD level but we still need to go back and edit the grade for some reason. So rare, but not impossible!

Thanks :)

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Robert Rae
Admissions
Nazarene Theological College, Manchester (UK)

ksautter
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 10/21/2022 - 22:47
I can easily put in a change

I can easily put in a change to allow you to change the note field without the system looking at the grade if the grade was already entered previously. But we will have to have further discussions for PhD students who might take a MA class (and needing an MA grade). In looking at Cliff, I only see two classes marked for PhD and there are no students in them. I also do not see any students with a grade of "S" or "U" (PhD grade scale) so I am assuming that up to now this has not been an issue.

When running a transcript, we use the grade scale to determine if a grade is valid and whether the student receives credit for the grade. We look at the student's major degree to determine that. If an MA grade is entered for a PhD transcript, then the grade will not appear valid and the attempted/earned credits will be 0. To change this behavior would be a large change and we would need to discuss.

Quesion... does the change for allowing the altering of the note need to be updated soon?

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Robert Rae
Last seen: 1 month 1 day ago
Joined: 08/20/2019 - 16:32
Ah, excellent. No, the change

Ah, excellent. No, the change is not urgent - there is only this one case, and I will get around that by changing the student's level/major degree track to allow entry, and then changing it back. Inelegant, but it will get the job done tomorrow :)

I suspect it will not be a common occurrence - PhD students would be much more likely to Audit a class, which has so far not proven a problem for the system. I think it will only occur in cases like this, where a student has done MA work, moved on to PhD, but for Exam Board grids or something else the admin staff need to edit the details. As you note, this might prove an issue if we then try to run an MA-level transcript for a now-PhD student?

A question - what happens if a student has both an MA-level and a PhD-level Student Major Degree Track present on their record? What would it default to then?

Thanks!

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Robert Rae
Admissions
Nazarene Theological College, Manchester (UK)

ksautter
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 10/21/2022 - 22:47
Sorry for the confusion. The

Sorry for the confusion. The transcript is only a problem if an MA grade is given for a class that is being taken for the student's PhD major (a student can be assigned a class that is not within their current college, you set the "Transcript Type Override" on the enrollment). If the grade given for that class is NOT in the PhD grade scale, it will show zeros, if the grade given is within the PhD grade scale, it will display and calculate correctly.

When a transcript is run for  a student's MA major/transcript type, you see the classes taken for MA, and vice versa. So when a student has two degrees (for different transcript types), two transcripts are run (each only showing the classes they took for that particular major, even if it's not the same transcript type if the transcript override was set). If a student has two degrees for the same transcript type, then both of those show on the transcript (unless the transcript is run by major).

Now... have I made that more confusing?? Or did that make sense?

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